100 Episodes Later: What hasn't changed in Marketing | E100

Why do the same marketing headaches keep coming back every year? 🤯 Three years in, 100 episodes later, and we’re still hearing “can you make it go viral?” like it’s a brief.

In this special 100th-episode live show, Ruta and Emma look back at the biggest themes from Blame It On Marketing so far—and the stubborn problems that refuse to die. From CROs who are just Head of Sales with a shinier title, to “pipeline” being treated like a strategy, to AI hype outrunning reality, we get honest about what needs to change (and what marketers can actually do).

We get into:
 ✅ “Make it go viral” and other immortal bad briefs (plus what to ask instead)
 ✅ CRO ≠ Head of Sales: what a real revenue leader should own (product, CS, renewals)
 ✅ Pipeline isn’t a strategy: start with business strategy → marketing strategy → goals
 ✅ Firefighting culture: why constant “sprints” without breathers burns everyone out
 ✅ Video obsession & personal-brand pressure: formats ≠ strategy, receipts > vibes
 ✅ Sales & marketing alignment: the forever battle (and the only fixes that stick)
 ✅ AI reality check: you’re not late, you don’t need “vibe coding,” and it’s AI-in-workflow, not human as an afterthought
 ✅ How to push back internally without sounding like a jerk (or losing your budget)

If you’ve ever wanted to hand your CEO a five-year plan when they ask for “viral,” this one’s for you. And if you’ve been here since episode 1—thank you for sticking with us. 💛

Transcript

0:00

Hi everybody. And welcome to a very special Blame It On Marketing episode. If you're tuning in live, we're live on LinkedIn right now. If you're listening to this in the future, then also welcome. This is Blame It On Marketing's 100th episode. Yay. And also I was about to say that we're three years old, like me and you are three years old, Ruta, but uh feels like it sometimes. But blame on marketing is also three years old. So you have tolerated us for three entire years. Congratulations to you. And a special thanks to everyone who has been on the podcast over the last three years and yeah, has been following along for the ride. So yeah, welcome. if this is 100th episode we probably have had 100 guests right because we do multiples and whatnot so that's wild. A lot of new internet friends, we love that for us. Yeah, good. Yeah. met some incredible people along the way. So before we get started, we've got a topic that we're going to discuss, which is all to do with things that have happened over the course of the podcast. So three years worth of podcast. things that haven't really changed in marketing, and then we'll have a little discussion about whether we think there's anything we could do differently. Yeah, absolutely. I am desperately trying to rename this thing on LinkedIn, but I don't think I can, so whatever. worry about it later, mate. So let's start off, should we start off with a marketing confession, Ruth? Or anything you want to confess to this morning? F*** have I done something this morning? Hey Clark! Why are you awake? I was gonna say about you not, not setting this up in time. Oh yeah, yes. So Emma and I have been on tour basically on conferences and in the small windows between that we've been doing work and the day that I was meant to set this up a week ago Canva was down so it's not really my fault if you really think about it. What about you Ems? god, have I fucked anything up this week? It's only Thursday. only Thursday but i do think that um because we have been on tour and it's been hardcore yesterday i couldn't hide that i wasn't in a great mood so um i definitely let my bad day behavior show yesterday. Ruta's like yes you did. was not a happy bunny, but we made it work. Clark's been up all night building something, so that's nice. Thank you for joining us. Hi Clark. Clark's been on the podcast before, so if you haven't listened to his episode, please do. um But let's jump into what we wanted to talk about today, which is we've done 100 episodes. We've spoken about all the shit and it doesn't feel like... All that much has changed in the last three years when it comes to those issues. So maybe we can pick like a couple of our top things that really haven't changed and really irk us to get us going. Do you wanna start? I've got one. think we might match. We go. We're probably gonna have the same ones. probably, but that's okay. I think they're probably the same issues. I mean, let's start off nice and gently, shall we? Let's not give everyone a heart attack to start with. We'll probably get deeper as this goes on. obviously the first ever episode of Blame It On Marketing was um with our good friend, Aitkin. and who's been on a couple of times and we were talking about making stuff go viral and I can't believe after three years that people still think that is something that we can just make happen and it drives it drives me wild I'm like it's there's no you know no amount of like planning or content creation like apart from consistency obviously is gonna make something go viral so like why are people still asking? We had like a conversation last week where someone was like their boss asked them to make it go viral and we were like no come on we've surely we've we're done with that now but no apparently not also if anyone you know has gone viral out there can you please explain to people that it's not what you think it usually is in terms of like actually then getting business and you know converting and all of those things because I think people forget that you know if you've made a nice video that is very watchable it doesn't mean that it's relevant to your business or will bring you any new business anyway so anything you would do differently? Like, is there anything we as marketers could be doing differently apart from being like, that's not how it works. No We're fine, aren't we? We're fine. No, I mean, I guess, yeah. It's hard. Well, I feel like, you know, you're immediately triggered when someone says that. That's the, that's the real problem. You're like, oh, it's happened, right? So then you're like, you let it rip. So that's the problem, isn't it? So maybe just take a deep breath and I would just go back with questions. If I, if I was handling this in the best way I could just be like, what do you mean by that? You know, what would you like to go viral? would you like me to do that? Just pretend to be a therapist. think my new way to handle that would be to hand whoever asks for it a five year social media strategy and a budget that's like, off like... maybe 2026 is the year of passive aggressive moves by marketers. I clearly in a very good mood, you know, just very well rested, very not tired. Very not tired, very, very in the mood for people saying stupid things. You know, when people say there are no stupid questions, that's one of them. That is a stupid question. So yeah, my pass-ag answer is hand them a five-year strategy and a budget to match that shows what it looks like to post every day for five years. And then say, we hope at the end of the five years will have gone viral. Yep, yep. Clark just mentioned that he had 1.5 million impressions on the LinkedIn video and it was the worst engagement of his life. If you wanna like expand on that, AKA, know, what happened, what did it do for you, what did it not do for you, that'd be great. um Because yeah, it's not what it is usually. You know, unless you're on TikTok making like stupid videos, like you can't top that later, like it won't make sense, but anyway. That's a whole different thing. I'm gonna go for CROs. You are all still just sales people that are looking after sales for the most part, except for like three people. Yeah, Timmy, and I'm giving two more people a chance here. Timmy is our absolute like CRO model god situation. Again, he's done an episode, we've done an episode on this with Timmy. So please go watch it. I'll try and get all the links together at some point. But I CROs are still very much senior salespeople that this was their next promotion essentially. And for me, a CRO is a person that looks after customer success, looks after new business, and also looks after a product because product is how you make your revenue. And you find that very, very rarely. And from all of the CROs, again, we've come across through five years of consulting, Timmy is the only one that... has even got close to doing all of that, he is doing all of that. So yeah, think that role is still not working the way it should be. Yeah, agreed, agreed. It needs a rethink. I think it's interesting as well that we, the role hasn't, that hasn't changed. The attitude towards it hasn't really changed from the sort of like, from a board position, board level position. And also we just keep going into the same cycles of doom. em And that's what companies do. And it's like, we need pipes. haven't hit our revenue target. We're being unrealistic but we expect it all to come from new business. We're not.. and we just.. and then we fire people and then we hire people and then we go through the same cycle of doom again. Um and I.. yeah I'm kind of.. I mean don't get me wrong it's how I make my living going in and telling people that you need to get out of the cycle of doom but Just a little bit of something. someone for like 150 to 200k that is basically a very senior salesperson that's not going to sell themselves anymore is probably not the best spend of money at most stages of your startup life. I don't know about later, whatever corporate like you do, you boo, but it just, I, there is nothing they can do for that much money. given that you could hire what, four salespeople for that much money. Mmm. for marketers, or you could spend that much on your marketing. Like not to be biased, it's not a good investment. I think that's... Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. um And also, what was I going to say? yeah, like the lifespan of a CRO is very short. And I think that's very indicative of the problem of the role and the kind of people that end up in the role. That's why you're there for 12 to 18 months and then you're back out doing something else. So yeah, how would you solve this Emma? Because you you love a CRO firing. I don't have a reputation. I actually think it's... I mean you choose how you want to fix this issue right but I actually just think maybe stop calling them chief revenue officers. em If you want to have a VP of sales and you want to have a VP of marketing that's all good. That's not a CRO. A CRO like you say is responsible for revenue. All revenue. so either stop calling them that or we make a new job that's like, you are chief new business officer and your job is over there. Yeah. but I, yeah, I think maybe it's that, maybe it's a restructuring issue. Um, but I do think there is a place for somebody in this, in a business that does look after that really does. You're like. I think a lot of founders and CEOs and boards get this wrong, which is that there is a desperate need to have that person that ties all of your revenue together at the top, that cares about product, that cares about renewals and retention and that they are not separate things. You know, that is like one thing. That's how your business grows. So yeah, I'd love to see that. Yeah. new business person and make it very clear that's their remit and and yeah bring in someone who's actually going to look after the whole spectrum yeah CES and Ops and marketing up sometimes better suited for that role than sales because sales can very much shut themselves off and just work on their numbers whilst the rest of us kind of still have to stay involved with things because it's very hard to make anything happen if you're not involved with at least other bits of the business. Yeah, that one needs a revamp in 26 for sure. definitely. Okay, so next. Pipeline, driving pipeline is not a marketing strategy. Nor is it actually a business strategy. As our very good friend, Timmy, was, we've already talked about. He's the CRO of Charlie HR, by the way. If you wanna go and check him out, you can go and connect with Timmy. He's great. he said on the podcast you know revenue is is um a proxy for value and that has stayed with me since he said it which was might have been like two years ago but pipeline pipeline is not your strategy you don't need more pipeline that's not how you grow and also like we all know across um especially we work in b2b sass a lot can see people are like i've got like a huge pipeline but i can't convert any of it because sales cycles are really slow and the economy is crap and all of that stuff so i don't think.. i mean obviously you can have a pipeline target but let's make it a realistic one for a start. let's not.. that's not a sword to die on you know and it's not a it's not a strategy and it doesn't it doesn't actually help your people perform better. What it does is just freaks everyone out. Yeah. yeah you have to, pipeline is like the result of lots of things happening, it's not the thing you're doing if that makes sense. So if you've not got the bank of things you're gonna be doing and how you're gonna be doing that then like, there will be no pipeline because you're just gonna be probably emas farming people and cold calling and hoping for the best. you know, like that's what you end up doing. How should we fix it? How should we fix it? Business strategy for then marketing strategy and then business goals and marketing goals and sales strategy and sales goals if we want to go like the whole way. The amount of times that we talk to people that don't have a marketing strategy shocking, but the amount of times we talk to people that don't know what their business strategy is as like a head of marketing, because there is not one, is a whole other can of worms. It's insane. So, so yeah, having those in place, super critical. If you're a senior person, push for it. Get them to, I don't know, read, measure what matters or like, okay, our books or whatever, just like get them on the roll with that because it will completely change how you look at work. Yeah, I also think it's to me it's it's not that complicated right because you start with your customer and what your customer wants and what your customer needs then you have an ideal and you've got your ideal customer profile from that the people you're actually selling to and then it's what do those people want and what do they need and that dictates product that should dictate sales that should dictate marketing everything it's not that difficult like It's not. It's just not. So if we can't, that's where we start for me. the task is not necessarily difficult but sitting down and making a decision and sticking to it is. Does that make sense? You gotta bet on something. you got to definitely have some resilience but I think the companies that are the most successful do do that realistically. They're not all... like believe it or not I know like this is something else that we... I'd probably like to throw into the hat. I'm skipping because I've now chosen two in a row but I feel like this leads on and I feel like you're going to accept it. is the whole like premise that as a CEO, as a founder, as a senior person that you should be firefighting all the time? Mmm. Like, that's not how it should be. That's not healthy. That's not also how you grow a business. Like, that's not... That's how you... That's how you get into the cycle of doom that we described earlier. Yeah, yeah, that's just a surefire way to burn out everyone that's good on your team in like 12 months. If you want that, then go for it. That is how you get there. If that is the plan, that is exactly how to do it. Yeah, that we, you know, in tech and in dev especially, there's the concept of sprints, right? So you have these like intense... two weeks or whatever time period where you're trying to achieve something and get something done. But what comes after a sprint is a break and a retrospective. And we have somehow just forgot to do that bit. And we just have like sprint to sprint to sprint. And you can't do that. You have to have a break and you have to have a breathing moment to actually like work on stuff and to think about things and not just to be like hammering your keyboard. trying to fix whatever is broken. And if you're a founder and you feel like you're, you know, always firefighting, that also applies to you. Like you are the founder and you might feel like you need to take all of that on. But essentially when you're the founder, like there's much more valuable things you could be doing with your time than firefighting every single email that might be coming through from a customer not wanting to log in or whatever, whatever the problem is. So yeah, I think that's a really... good shout-emps and yeah, not something that has changed very much in the last three years. How would you go about fixing that? I do think.. the one thing that I do think is like the founder or the CEO you know the person at the top of the food chain is that you do actually have the choice whether you feel like you do or not like you do. you probably have really good people around you already so maybe it is literally like we're gonna do things differently in 2026 conversation and it is kind of like committing.. is, yeah. committing to a business strategy, you can find great people out there to help you. Like, you don't have to do this on your own. If you need coaching, if you need therapy, if you need business coach, you know, all of those things exist for you. You probably do. You probably do. you think that firefighting is the only way to live your life or the only way to run your business, then like you probably do need some help. I mean that with care and respect. uh So yeah. him Ferris but go read for our work week if you wanna read about someone firefighting and then just being like nah not gonna do that anymore I don't know if we've cancelled him yet but I'll google later yeah what else what else do you think from your point of view hasn't really changed? We did we speak about this recently? I don't know. I've been with Emma the whole month basically, so I can't remember anymore. Um, but I think the like weird obsession around video like is still a thing. It's like, we need to do more video. We need to do more video. And I swear we've been saying that for much longer than three years. We've been saying that since like, I started my marketing career basically, and we're still all saying that and like, Especially on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is still trying to say that video is the best content, but then the reach is not there for video anymore. So I feel like if you're not on the video train by now... you're probably not gonna get on it. And that's okay. yeah, I also feel like the vidi, this will lead into one of my other things that I'm dubious about, but the video obsession as well is like, I don't, and we talked about this when we have made podcasts about this topic, is that like video is just a format. It's not, it's not the. it's not the theme or the topic or the content. that's the thing that matters. the format is whatever the best format is for the thing that you're trying to achieve. so i find it very weird when people are like we need to more video. okay yeah but why? still.. we're still having that conversation. it's weird. And also it depends if like your audience likes video. Like when we like we work in HR tech a lot and videos fine, but like we don't need to do video. We can get away with writing content pretty much exclusively. Like if we wanted to, like I don't think it would harm, you know, marketing efforts all that much. if that was the case, you know, so it's and also it's what's appropriate isn't it it's like in that example of the hr tech one the thing that that audience want to hear they don't want people who are not in hr talking to them about their jobs because they're like what do you know you run a tech company piss off and um and so i can i can completely and i think a lot of us probably feel that way actually but that know the only person people they want to hear from are the people that are either doing the same job as them or have overcome the challenges that they've actually overcome. So whatever medium that comes in is is fine um as long as it's that. As long as it's authentic. It's actually come from the people who've got the challenges. So yeah. And as two people that have been posting videos for the last three years every single week, like consistently because of the podcast, like one, it's a lot of work and two, like the results are nice, but they're not anything like groundbreaking. Maybe we're just shit, who knows? But like it is what it is, right? Like it's not, it's not some magic bullet. that will fix all of your marketing problems by any means whatsoever. No, it's a great thing to have, like we say, if it actually supports your audience. You know, like if, like we were listening to Janice Thomas yesterday at the generative AI conference and she was talking about, we love her, just to say, hopefully she hears this. But just to say that like she was just talking about how she worked for a makeup brand. and you know.. doesn't matter how many eyeliner tutorials they put out.. the audience still wanted more and more more more more more tutorials please. and that i can completely understand. it makes sense. that's what people want. that's how people learn. but yeah.. if it's not for those purposes like why you.. if it's not like, if the format isn't helping with the information you're trying to relay, it doesn't actually matter. Like I think that's the same way, like the podcast is great and we have video, but if it was just audio or just written, it would still totally work because it still relates the same information, right? Like. like to how pissed off we look. True that, the facial expressions help, but you know, like it's a small part of, you know, everything. Like if it was just facial expressions, wouldn't make sense, right? It still needs the content. Yeah. So what's your follow on? My next one is it's tied into this because we ran a session recently for some small business owners where we were talking about personal brand. And now when you run a small business or you're growing a brand, obviously personal brand, you know, it exists whether you kind of want it to or not. But I think the point that we were trying to make was that it's not the be all and end all, you know, cause ultimately if you have a large personal brand, but it is not... converting anyone into actual business for you. It doesn't have to be the way that you do marketing. It doesn't have to be the only way. And then when there were people in the room who have got huge personal brands, you know, and then you hear about the work and the effort it took to get them to that point where it did start to convert into work for them. And we're talking about five years. So that's no overnight success. They're not unicorns. not magical people. They didn't find the magic leedry. They they worked at it. Yeah still looking. Um so I just I think that that to me is not going.. that that feeling and that pressure that people put on themselves to have this certain personal brand thing. I don't.. I don't.. I don't buy it. it's not for everyone, right? Like not everyone feels comfortable posting. Like, you know, we happen to be, yeah, we happen to be comfortable with it. And I'm like a YouTube child. So this is great for me. Like all the, all the fantasy, but for a lot of people, they don't, they don't want to post crap on LinkedIn. They don't want to add to it. They don't want to like, you know, I'm not saying that everyone posts crap, but you know, like just add to the noise of everything and that's okay. You don't have to do that. And like, if you did something consistently for five years, every single day, the way that like we're talking about. the people that we met in terms of personal brand, a lot of things would work if you consistently did them every day for five years. Whether it's like just messaging people or connecting with people or whether it's publishing a blog every day for five years, like, my God, like you would make some huge progress like in your marketing and then getting customers. So yeah, like it's absolutely not the be end at all. And also, The more people selling personal brand there is, or the more people are selling a thing, the more of a red flag it is for me because it's usually just a thing that is easy to sell rather than a thing that is going to, you know, get you the success that you think it is. because, you know, there's, there's infinite resources out there on that. And it's just, it's the LinkedIn viral to course pipeline essentially. And some people do it really well. like no shade, like some people do it really well like we've had Leah Turner on the podcast she's awesome like she's built a whole thing around this and I totally get that but yeah just just watch out on on who you're trusting on that information it. It's the like, it's the proof in the pudding, isn't it? It's like, Leah is someone who, she knows what she's talking about. So it's not, it's not fake. You know, she's not, she's not selling you something that isn't achievable. you need to see the receipts. If you're not posting about how successful your clients are and what they're doing, then what are you doing? What are you doing? also I think it's that and I do understand that it's this thing where it's like, well marketing is really expensive so I'm just going to try and do this thing myself. But again, as we sort of talked about in this session with these small business owners, we were sort of like, well there is a line, there is a limit to for all of us in marketing, you know, even as generalists and even as people who were senior and who've done a lot of different jobs and a lot of different campaigns. There is a line that we do not cross which is I go I no longer know how to do this thing and I do not cross it unless I'm prepared to put in the effort to learn and do it right. Yeah. Well, we had a really interesting conversation yesterday at the end of the Gen.ai event, which was like, oh, we're just adding this whole AI expert onto marketing now, aren't we? Like, it's just another thing we're going to need to do. And we were like, oh yeah, fuck. Yeah. And you know, again, some of us are cool with that. Some of us love it and like to nerd out and like to do that stuff. Not everyone's going to want to, and that's okay. So if you need help, get the help you need. Yeah. it doesn't have to break the bank and you you can be sensible and talk to people and figure out who's good and how much you should pay for stuff and all of that stuff. Yeah, but personal brand is not the be-all and end-all of small business marketing. Absolutely not, absolutely not. What's next for you? Oh Let me. Let me have a think. I want to talk. I want to say sales and marketing alignment because it's just. It's an unsolvable problem, but I also like don't want to talk about it because because it's such a thing, you know, so I'm trying to think of a backup option. Should we talk about it? yeah because it's still not there. It like to me it's fallen into the camp of unacceptable. Like it just isn't. that's where the good CRO needs to happen because they're the people that are supposed to be able to bring these teams together because they understand the whole picture. Anyway, it's a tag on problem from the CRO problem. get in the bin with the crap CROs. Yeah. And the shit sales and marketing alignment. yeah yeah it kind of falls it all falls there is this awful category of our podcast and marketing conversations which are these people don't understand marketing and that and there's there's like a whole camp of them over there sales and sales people CROs, CEOs, board members. I mean, there's some bad board behavior going on out there, I think at the moment. also yesterday, who was it that said that board members are like the most naive people when it comes to deep fakes? And I was like... yes, that was quite entertaining. girl, sorry, I cut you off. No no no no no not at all. just think um yeah the the the fact that we're still I mean I mean it's great because our podcast still exists three years in like the fact that we've still got loads of people we don't understand we're still you and I are still touring the talk of like why marketing get blamed. Yep. Yep. Yep. What the fuck do we do about that? Yeah, well, guess that's the main summary point. Blame and marketing is still happening. The concept of blaming marketing is still happening. Three years after the podcast started, not saying that everyone's listened to our podcast, so it should stop, but it's still a thing, still alive and well. Hmm. Yep. Yep. the doom.. it goes back to the doom cycle though for me. this is.. all these problems that we're talking about are all deeply connected and there might be a few people who are listening going yeah but is it ever good anywhere? and i think there's always going to be.. look it's work. it's not ever going to be 100 % but like you know i do have faith. we.. we have worked with clients who are grown-ups. who do this shit properly and and if they don't have the.. if they're struggling they will take the time to stop, sit and listen. And that is as much as anyone can do i think. And to actually like genuinely try and understand instead of just being like, well, that's just not how it is or like, it's just not working. You know, like actually trying to be like, okay, cool. These are all the factors affecting this thing and it's complicated and wherever you're gonna go with that conversation. Mm. Yeah. It's tiring though, isn't it? Yeah. As a marketer doing the internal marketing comms is, it's bloody exhausting. Like I feel like us in HR, like I just, we just need, I need to stop talking to you about why I'm qualified and I'm good at doing my job. Like, I just don't want to do that anymore. I don't want to do that. yeah. Yeah. I.. yeah. That's a hard.. that's a hard one. I think that's.. that's it, isn't it? It's like after three years. I mean I really hope.. I know that there are some very good CEOs and uh.. investors and other people that listen to this podcast and others that are really.. really try. Um.. but all I want for Christmas is for someone not to ask me any of these questions. Ever again! Ever again. Yeah, I was gonna say just for Christmas because that's like a very short, doable day. No one's gonna message you anyway, like, don't be specific. I think if I could have that, you know, men in black thing where you could just like forget you ever thought you knew something about marketing when you didn't. Yeah, yeah. Should we wrap up there? think that's a good summary point. Marketing gossip, my God. Yeah, we've got time. I know, it's so weird when we have to do it, because usually our speakers, I guess, do it. go, yeah. got gossip because obviously like i said we've you know not to keep harping on about the fact we've been on tour um but we were we've obviously spent the last couple of days at a gen ai marketing conference and there were lot of great speakers there but the conversation i think um my gossip or my takeaway from that entire thing is um we are not anywhere near where some people are making out we are with AI in terms of its usage, its implementation, the governance processes around it. And I would say that people should be kinder to themselves and others about their usage and especially the governance side around it as well. Like you cannot expect people to understand EU regulations about AI tech. We will take it seriously, but we need help on the journey. Yeah, I think one thing that stood out from Fiona, Fiona, oh God, Sherwood, I right? Yes, look at me. I'm at remembering surnames. Fiona was like, you're not too late. You're not, you haven't missed the boat. It hasn't gone. You're not too late. Everyone is not out there like building agents and. vibe coding and all of that stuff. Like that's completely not the world we're in as marketers. So like you're not too late, start now. You're good. Isn't vibe... do know what? I hate... just... I hate the term vibe coding. I hate it. I think it's fucking stupid. It's just basically a way of being like I played around with something. I went on lovable, put in a prompt and got a HTML site. my God, I'm now vibe coding. That's not, yeah, no. It's nothing. Also. things feel exclusitory. Yes. Also as both Emma and I are in deep in terms of when it comes to tech and understanding tech, we have tech businesses, vibe coding is extremely limited unless you want something to just function as a site that takes some information on the site. As soon as you have to do any processing power, any understanding, any calling of different things, different days, like it's not good enough. So yes, you can build a cute little form basically. different variations of forms but like it's not there so don't worry about it. You're all good. stop and stop calling it vibe coding. Pretentious. No! It's not real. It's not real. Not to me anyway. Anyway, what's your gossip? Quickly. gossip is... I'm... I don't know how like world crumbling I want to go. Maybe that's not the vibe for today. um I'm going to stick with the John AI theme because obviously we were there for two days. It's all very relevant and fresh. I'm going to go with people keep saying human in the loop and I completely agree. It's AI in the loop or AI in the workflow. It's not the other way around. And also if we're replacing people and then firing them, we're just going to crash the economy guys. So like, let's not do that, you know, because if there's no, no more to buy stuff, then we won't be making money. And then, you know, like, That shit crumble so yeah But don't worry because the trillionaires will just be trillionairing. It's all great. Don't worry about us. Yeah, so let's just let's bear that in mind as a business community that the work is there so that other people can consume things so that the world kind of keeps chugging along. yeah. i definitely your point.. we.. we obviously at the the conferences came up a lot because people do. they say human in the loop constantly and it's really frustrating because it's like.. you're making it sound like it's AI first and human second and it's like.. no! last time i checked anyway i still had a pulse so I still have to tell chat what I want to do, know? Not the other way around. not the other way around. so and maybe we'll get to a point where that is what's going on with agents and stuff but at the same time it's not necessarily a world that i want to live in. like when you when you when you break down the basics of what you actually really want as a customer it sure as shit isn't that. so remember that. yeah Well, thank you so much Ems. I think we've had a great chat about this and maybe we'll do another one of these in another hundred episodes. my god, do think we're gonna get to 200 episodes? That sounds crazy. my head i just went how old will i be because my brain can't compute. years, whatever that gets us through. just be plugged into chat GPT like... It will be chat GPT, won't be Emma or Rye, it will just be our avatars. Synthesia, if, Synthesia, I can never fucking say it. If you want to sponsor us, we're here for you. um No, yeah, no. Well, thank you everyone for joining us. Hope you enjoy this live. If you're here live, thank you so much for posting and saying hello and we're gonna... upload this so if you missed this you'll have it on the podcast normal channels anyway and yeah have a great rest of your week everyone