Trigger Bingo: A Marketing Rant-Off | E90 with Marketing Dribble Podcast

Why do marketers lose their cool over slide decks, ChatGPT “feedback,” and CEOs who sign off every tweet? 🤯 We’ve all felt our blood boil when leadership “just wants it pretty,” when “my partner hates that ad,” or when they lob in a last-minute “get this done by tomorrow” bomb.

In this crossover episode, Emma & Ruta team up with Marketing Dribble hosts Rob Boyle and Johnny Kenyon to play Trigger Bingo—naming the marketing pet peeves that make us want to quit our own jobs. Then they vote on which trigger reigns supreme.

We get into:
 ✅ “Make the slides pretty”—and watch sales hijack your designs
 ✅ “My spouse saw the ad and hated it”—no, really, that happened
 ✅ CEOs who must sign off every post, budget or button-click
 ✅ Marketing leaders replaced by sales hires (or ChatGPT)
 ✅ “Urgent” priorities imposed last-minute—then radio silence
 ✅ Google Ads horror stories: “Why didn’t my ad even show up?”
 ✅ Endless ChatGPT feedback loops that never end
 ✅ And more of your worst marketing nightmares…

If you’ve ever felt your marketing sanity slipping—or wondered if you’d snap, too—this one’s for you. 🎧

Transcript

0:00

welcome back to Blame It On Marketing we are joined by two of our favourite podcast hosts, Rob and Johnny from the Marketing Dribble podcasts. I'm Rob Boyle. I've been in marketing 18 years, mainly in e-commerce. That's kind of my sort of jam. Hi, Johnny Kenyon, marketing about 12 years. Rob was actually my first ever manager in marketing and we've just spoken ever since. we are gonna do a rehash of our triggers video. are you ready? Go. Mmm The CEO has to sign everything off, and I mean everything. Like you're buying something for two pounds and needs it signed off. My next one is basically firing your senior marketers because you've got chat GPT now. I did this piece of work. They then came back to me with more chat GPT feedback and asked chat GPT to comment on the design. I replied back saying, I don't mind chat GPT feedback, but can you at least make it look like it's not? Drop the mic and walk out. You've triggered me, but in a different way. You've made me anxious now. Hi everyone and welcome back to Blame It On Marketing with Emma and Ruta. And we are joined by two of our favourite podcast hosts, Rob and Johnny from the Marketing Dribble podcasts. So guys, do we need to do an intro for you? You've been on before, but do you want to say just a quick hi? I'm Rob Boyle. Yeah, I'm co-hosting a Marketing Double podcast with Johnny Kenyon, as I normally say. I've been in marketing 18 years, mainly in e-commerce. That's kind of my sort of jam. And yeah, I love hanging out with Johnny. Listen. Wow. How do I follow that? Hi, Johnny Kenyon, co-host on Marketing Dribble podcast as well. don't know why we chose that name. just kind of did. uh marketing about 12 years. Rob was actually my first ever manager in marketing and we've just spoken ever since. Podcast came about, I just used to ring him in the car when I was going mountain biking on long journeys and we'd talk about marketing for like an hour and we were like, why are we not recording this? So. If you want to hear our ramblings and musings, get across and have a listen. And you have just been guests on ours as well, haven't you? So exciting crossover episode to go dig around and find as well. So the episode we did on the Marketing Dribble podcast was Room, what did we call it? 404, not 101. So we were binning marketing things. So today's episode, we thought we'd continue with a fun theme of things we wanna complain about. I think that's the major theme of the two episodes, but we are gonna do a rehash of our triggers video. So we did one ages ago, me and Emma, just the two of us, and we're trying to trigger each other with marketing things. So we're gonna do a group one. where we're going to kind go around the table and then say what the thing is and then we'll choose at the end which one was the most triggering. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, you were drinking on that episode. I've just got orange juice because it's 1pm here so... Might not get as triggered as you again. Hmm. very sensible. Johnny. it off? wait, You hit them with your first one. So first one, it's not that dramatic but I feel like it's something we've all dealt with and it's like, ooh, marketing, you're in charge of making us pretty slides. How do you feel? Yeah, pretty triggered. think because I've got, I've wrote a few to be honest, I've got so many written down. One of mine's an advancement on that really is when you have done that and you've done the pre-slides, you've just sucked it up and done it and then sales take it upon themselves to just change them and throw random stuff in and just put stretched images. I don't know how they can't work out to drag an image from the corner. So that, it's triggered deeply. but by waterfall effect, I think. um Because we're going to the theme and we've got that many. When the boss comes in and says something like, my wife, partner or whoever, saw your meta ads and they didn't like the creatives you did. my god. Is that your first trigger? I think, Rob, think that's your first one. Yeah, yeah, because I kind of went on a theme. I know we're rushing around on it, but yeah, I thought it was just to interject it, Yeah, I feel like it's on the same. maybe is like the first switch. just, it's like people just think that the creative stuff just comes out of nowhere. Like you just pull a picture out of your ass and that's why, and we just like, we think this is nice. It's like there's so much more to it. Mmm. Absolutely, it's built for a reason. It's not just like, yeah, you find an image and that'll do it. It's like, because if we did that, we'd all just use pictures of puppies and kittens. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'll just say AI stuff. Yeah, I always say I'm not a graphic designer. Like being a generalist, I can get away with this quite a lot more as well and just say, look, that's not my remit. Like, and I do, just said I'm not a graphic designer. I can do it. It's not gonna look good. Like, I'll try my best if you really want me to and you're in a rush, but just pay someone who knows how to do the job to do it properly. You may as well, you know? So. graphic designer and be like, I didn't quite like that. Could you just could you just move this over here and it's like no there's a reason it's there always That is a definite trigger, the graphics, isn't it? Mmm, I'm a little triggered. I'm a little triggered. It's a good start up now okay guys it's your go i don't mind you guys i'll try and officiate if you like am i officiating whatever refereeing if you want someone from your guy's side you guys decide who's gonna go next with Johnny. beauty, No, it's Johnny, I've sort of of sneaked my name there a little bit. sneaked one in, yeah. Okay, brilliant. take a seat, please. Thanks for applying for the job of Sales and Marketing Director. But we did actually decide to give it to the Head of Sales. He's done a few trade shows, he's made a couple of product flyers, so he has marketing experience, but you don't have any sales experience. Oh, that just, yeah, I'm like a nine out 10 immediately. it just literally brought up the bit of me that's like, how can we get them fired? I think that's triggered. I think that's triggered. straight in there. Yeah That person's now out of a job. Yeah We talked about firing people you love getting people fired because we spoke about this on our cross episode as well Planting things in people's desks and hey, yeah your fired kind of thing where I my fingers. drives, I think. m host the apprentice. You should, because you're just like, you're just like, that's it for you every day and then you're fired. You're just brought in, you're like, those troubleshooters that come in just like get rid of half the staff and then just leave. Alan Sugar just needs to step down, I think. I've got no, I've got no time for those, you know, those people who are like, we're restructuring. I'm a consultant and we're restructuring the department. No, sorry. No. But like we, I feel like our firings as we sort of talked about on your podcast are valid. They were all very valid. It was, it's not personal. It's, it's to do with the job. And that's why this, you saying that, Johnny, is so triggering for us. Cause we all know what that, we literally have all felt it, that there is a head of Yeah, director of sales and marketing and you're just like, you don't know anything about marketing. make cells. oh and the boardroom being filled by sales like why you know Why is that experience more important than marketing? It's like what it's like we were talking about in your episode with the CROs. It's like the CRO job, because that's not a director of sales. A CRO job is to be the person who looks after revenue, which is revenue across the board, not just new business. So it's like, it's just a complete misunderstanding of what the role is supposed to be. Basically. Mm. are you ready for the next one? We're all now- Oh! She's all the way. I picked up nine when you were talking about it and now I'm at like a solid five. I've calmed down a bit. Yeah. You guys? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're getting that warming up. Rob's not even phased. Yeah. something spicy for you, Rob. Okay, are you ready? The CEO has to sign everything off, and I mean everything. it. And even like budgets, sorry to jump in, but my God. Like you're buying something for two pounds and needs it signed off. Use of time is there. We worked something like that, didn't we Johnny? I'm not mentioning it anyway. Every year a £65 piece of software that reoccurs have to raise a PO for it, whatever it is, like all the stuff has to go through a sign off process. Like it takes up more people's business hours and that £65 even costs just to sign the thing off that we've been using for the past three years. Like, yeah, I'm pretty triggered by that one I think. So, but even like not even signing off, this is one up as well, is like when someone, the CEO, has to just put something on maybe you're sending an email out and they have to just swap two words over or like let's just move this bullet point up one just so they put their stamp on it and they can take credit if it goes well you know that's yeah just getting too involved I think you've hired someone really good if you hired me then you know just let me let me cook You you just like hiring a personal chef and then going in there and like telling them they're chopping onions wrong and like trying to add like salt into that. They would just walk out. A personal chef would just leave if you did that. Do you know what mean? That is such a good one, Emma. I never thought that one, but it's brilliant, yeah. Love that. Oh yeah, that's straight up annoying. He got me. just remembered. It brought back such horrific memories of like, yeah, you just can't move, yeah. That's a great one. Am I gonna have to go and lie down now? That's it. probably like an eight. I'm like an eight. Yeah m Yeah, it's up there. But I also haven't been a consultant now for four years. That is just, I'm used to it now. Yeah, I was gonna say I feel quite hardened to that. Yeah, I feel like I'm yeah, I'm just like, yep, cool. That is how it is. Yeah, look later. and you will pay me my very expensive day rate while we sit and wait for you to sign it off. To sign off a social post, know, enjoy if this is what you want to be doing with your time. I can't do much about that. yeah. Maybe we should do that more, Rob, Just, not our time, yeah. and if I had a junior marketer under me, I would have zero interest in signing off their social posts. So if that's what you want to do, like. I can't be bothered to say- I'm not saying I can't be bothered, that's what made it sound bad, but I trust the people I work with enough not to sign off their social posts when we're acting as CMO. Because you'd have to know so much about what's behind it, like we said earlier, wouldn't you? You can't just go, well, I don't like the look of that because that's not maybe why it's greyed that way. Yeah, exactly. We've tested and this works better than that. So the reason we're doing it. But you see, yeah, you get that. less lifestyle. good. enough, like making it part of a process just slows everything down. Yeah, good one. Good one. So Ruta, you're next. Okay. I did make a post about this a few days ago and it's basically firing your senior marketers because you've got chat GPT now. Hmm I had this one just just general jobs being replaced or just being told you're gonna be replaced by chat GPT and It's triggering It's it's not just triggering like it is there is a worry there as well, you know because Yeah, yeah, yeah, we Yeah that performance Manchester last week there was Had someone come on and just say like 95 % of marketers gonna be out of work in the next five years and you know, that's that's not come from nowhere like Yeah, worrying. You've triggered me, but in a different way. You've made me anxious now. What is anxious? Anxious trigger. Well, I always think, know, planes can take off themselves, fly themselves and land themselves, but you wouldn't want to get on a plane without a pilot, would you? So, you know, so, you know, maybe there's a little bit of hope for us. So that's how I look at it. But you've got to able to use it. That's the thing. the problem is the lack of understanding, isn't it, around the fact that, I mean, you know, we say this all the time, so many different things, but you put shit in, you get shit out. marketing to a certain point of view isn't subjective. There is an objective element to what we do because there's the data that sits behind it. So if you're just like, yeah, it's fine, we'll just get... a marketing exec for 22k a year to put shit into chat GPT and then the CEO signs off. Where's the objectivity? There isn't any. It's like, that's not what the job is. It's balancing those two things. Anyway, that's my TED talk. Thanks so much for being here. em why I'm kind of getting more into like marketing psychology at the moment. I feel like it's almost coming back around to those advertising days where like creativity is going to be the big thing because there's going to be so much slop. There already is so much slop. Just look at LinkedIn. It's just going to be AI talking to AI at some point. So being able to cut through that, like you say, from like an objective perspective, is going to be really powerful. I think there's going to be some that can do that. You know, even if it is sitting in the co-pilot seat, like you say, Rob, just being there in case things go wrong or just to kind of add some steer and I don't know. Yeah, triggering, but in a different way. I'm not angry. I'm just, Okay, just disappointed. All right, Rob, what do you got for us? This has been a big trigger for me throughout my career, I think. And it's running on from Google Ads when you set up a Google Ads campaign and you're not always in a meeting, but usually in like a board meeting or it could get filtered back to you of like someone's Googled a keyword you should be ranking for, but then your ad never appeared. And there's like, there's so many reasons why it might not appear targeting budgets. It's like, why didn't it appear? Yep. Yep. I've had that conversation far too many times. It's just like... the trying to explain how the keyword system ranks and the competitive nature of it and how it doesn't, you just don't put your money in and it has instant effect. That's one of the ones they're like, I don't understand, but you've paid. Yeah, I'm not, think, I think, I think I'm just numb to this now. Like I'm not even triggered by it. Cause even like back in the old days, you might even like block out the office IP just to stop sales people cranking you up and stuff. And like, there's loads of reasons. And like, like you too have touched upon tons of other reasons and it might not even be a good keyword. That's the worst thing. It could just be like, that's not something we want to rank for. And they'd like, why not? And it's a whole conversation. Yeah. Or this just like the wrong intent behind it. Or it's a money pair. Or there's so many reasons and it's having to explain that just because someone's so bored in their day to day job they've decided to just start googling random words and see what pops up. Why are you doing that? Go do some work, you know? me over your list of keywords. I want to check them over at the... And then it's like, that's data behind those keywords. But no, you need these ones in. Hmm. think as well, like sometimes, you know, with niche keywords, there's not enough like search to even pay for them. And when you search for them, like, yeah, I know, but there's like 20 searches a month. So like Google doesn't allow us to target them. Yeah, but why? Cause I can't change Google babes. Anyone outside of marketing picking keywords just get fucked for me. no. Just no. Like I hate the f- I've worked in companies before where we've had the CEO sign off the keywords. Why? No, not back to the CEO signing everything off. That's two. Why? They don't know. They don't know. All I've ever done is work for male CEOs so good luck pinpointing that one. There was. m you know what? was I wasn't unto it, but the more we talked about it, the more riled up I've got. I think you've got me for like a six now, Rob, actually. So it's coming up. It's coming up. So it was a good one. Okay, Johnny, it's over to you. Ooh, you want me? So I feel like because you've said you're numb to these kind of things as consultants, this might not get you. I've got some e-commerce ones, but that's only going to get Rob. So I feel like this one maybe it's not so much marketing, probably business procedures, but someone forcing a priority on you, but then not making it a priority themselves. I.e. we need to get this email out tomorrow, but then it takes them a week to get you like a contact list or something. And then it's your fault still, it's not happened. So you have got to jump when they say jump, but then they can take their sweet, sweet time. And as consultants, I feel you'll get that a lot. Whether it still triggers you or whether you're just numb to it, I don't know. That categorically pisses me off. yeah. Yeah, you look bad. something that you can just let go, you know, like... You look bad. You still had to charge for the time because you do. Cause you're waiting around or you're chasing or you're doing whatever. But the thing didn't actually happen on time and you look, yeah, you're the one that's made to look shit. And also like, I know we were joking about like people taking time and we're like, we just charge, you know, no, I actually really hate having my time wasted. Like that is my number one no-no. I'm like. why would you pay for a consultant and then waste their time? Just no. like on the same lines of like, you you like do a meeting, do like the documentation, do the thing that you were meant to do. And then like, it just goes silent. And then a week later, the message being like, yeah, no, we're not gonna be doing that anymore. And I'm like, what happened in the last week to like change you so fundamentally that you're not doing this basic marketing thing that we all agreed on like. Oh. just don't reply. They just don't reply for ages. And you're like, I've seen you in other meetings. I know you're alive. I know you're not on holiday. work like you've put in so much work today it's almost just like i love analogies you'll see this if you head over to our podcast quick pitch it's like spending a week digging a hole and then someone comes up and be like i don't want that anymore just can you fill it in you're like are you joking i've just spent a week like digging this hole so rob you're very quiet you're either just unfazed or you're seething I don't know, you get it. Yeah, I know what you're saying. But the worst thing is when you don't get a hit from anyone and then they suddenly just pop up and go, yeah, can we get done by in another hour now? It's like that kind of like, what the, you've had a week to come back to me and now you want it like within an hour or something. Oh, it's worse when you're still waiting on them. You're like, no, you haven't done the thing I asked you. It can't be your action. Yeah. but then it's not well, why don't you chase me? Yes! ah Why don't you fucking chase me? is that so many C-suite people do that. This just like lack of accountability and taking responsibility for their part in it. Like they don't know that people are waiting on them. It's like if you were the one who said, need to sign this thing off in the first place and then you don't make time to sign it off, how can you then think that that's okay? But so many people do it. It's just... To me that's just like, it's very disrespectful. Makes me very angry. something, they're like, we need to do this immediately. They take a fucking week. And then it's the, don't you chase me? It's a whole string of like trigger, trigger, trigger. I am not joking you guys. I did this piece of work. I'm not gonna say when or for who or whatever but I did this piece of work and I did it myself as in no AII was used. Then I got chat GPT feedback which was generic AF. I then implemented that. They then came back to me with more chat GPT feedback and asked chat GPT to comment on the design. of the documents, so chat GPT was like, it's a little bit outdated and da, da, da, da, da. It needs to feel more sass. And I was like, how, how can you realistically, and it was a C, C-suite person. I was like, how can you, and, and I, and I, cause I don't care anymore. I replied back saying, I don't mind chat GPT feedback, but can you at least make it look like it's not? Wow! Drop the mic and walk out. I love that. I love that. C-suite, I'm just letting you know that I know that's what you did. Yeah, that's pretty decent now. I like that one. I do it bit more slyly. I'm just like, nice chat GPT. thanks chat GPT. I always say just something's like, no, not as hard as that. I also, if you're in C-suite, you're just in meetings all day, babes. Like, let's be real. You're not, you're not doing actual work. So why is it that using like your brain to respond to an email that you actually should check is like the thing you outsource to chat GPT? Like what? What? It's wild. I don't, I don't buy this thing where people are like, I'm so busy, I can't make time. Like, I just don't buy it. It's just not true. Organize yourself better. Be less shit. that's a good trigger. That's a good one. have, oh, I don't have time. It's like, you're joking. You're that in this like 30 second job. You just don't have time to look at it. yeah, yeah. So I've got, can I expand on this one? yeah, go on then. Go Johnny, sorry. I've got a quick one to sneak in, because I know we're only getting like two or three. So just go back on the chat GPT ideas and using chat GPT. Waking up and just chat GPTing something and coming in. Goes into like a group chat and then someone says, why haven't we been doing this already? You know, you've just thought of it 30 seconds ago. We're a team of two or one or whatever you are. Like we can't do everything. Like just because something's easily executable doesn't mean it takes priority over other stuff. Do you know what mean? So it's like why, yeah, that's kind of a tap on trigger, I guess, to what we've been talking about. Mmm. It's annoying. the back of that, I think we've talked about this before, or four of us is when your boss or something listens to a podcast or something on the way in and then comes in the office and go, I've heard this, it's really good. Why aren't we doing it? You know, we said this before, it's like, it's not even part of the strategy, it's not even relevant to us. It's not, it's, yeah, let's not go down there, anyway. Sneak that in. think this one wins. uh to. no, no. I'm wondering which one to pick next because some of mine are borderline personal. I will, No, No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say it, but I'm saying it with love because I don't count myself in this camp. Okay. Are you ready guys? Please don't throw anything at me. The only good marketers worth paying good money for come out of London. Okay, okay. come across that being too northern. I just, well, yeah, I feel like the London way, post-COVID, I don't think as much. I feel like definitely pre-COVID, that was a thing, all the money. I know it's more expensive to live down there, but still, yeah, I feel like that is true. I've definitely sort of. yeah. Yeah. that yeah but I've definitely had comments, especially when I, it was more so when I lived in Peterborough about the fact that I live in Peterborough, so it's cheaper to run my business. And like, therefore, why am I, why, like, why are you not charging what a local marketer would charge? And it's like, because I'm not a local marketer. Hmm. no, I've had where you've had people from maybe London Asia that consultants and they only go on the call and almost to justify their existence rather than working with you. They're just challenging everything you say and trying to like trip you up. I've had that kind of thing, these London boys. that. Okay. Little trigger, little trigger. You've done well, Rob. You've not been triggered too much. I think we need an e-commerce specific trigger to get Rob's blood boiling, you know? We can have a bonus round. Bonus round. okay. Yeah, well, we all just try and trigger Rob, that'll be a nice little we'll all try and trigger Rob. we're all gonna try and trigger Rob. Who wants to go first? yeah, the CEO sign off. You did put your head in your hands. Yeah, yeah. Who wants to go first? Johnny, feel like you've got a good chance of. I'll get him. I'll get him. Okay, two things. One, it's National Pie Day. Let's just scrap everything we're doing and get some pies on some plates and we're gonna sell that. Two, oh yeah, we used to have 15,000 parts in a warehouse, we Rob? And there's a day for every single one, so. How do we make this day match a washing machine filter or something? but really tenuous of littering it's gross. I also linked to that a little bit, just like looking out the window and deciding what we're doing that day based on, oh, it's a little bit hot today. Like no real forward planning, no looking at kind of what's worked historically at this time. Just, I think the whole thing is then just, just good feel of just sell this Rob, just make it happen. Change all your existing plans and do this because I say so. Does that trigger you? Yeah, yeah, I think the seasonal thing, I think it's like, oh, it's to rain tomorrow. Quick, let's get a post out about filters. it's like, people don't shop that way. It's all got it. Look at that advert and it's raining. It matches. I need to buy it now. No. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I've got one. I think it could work for e-commerce. um My e-commerce experience is very tiny. But okay, so we need to hit a certain revenue goal next year. So you're like, okay, how are we gonna bring more people to the website? How are we gonna get them through the funnel? And then the person's like, no, no. If we just go from 4 % to 6 % on our conversion rates, we don't need to bring anyone in. Just improve the conversion rate with the same traffic. Yeah, hear that. You don't need any budget, just improve, No, that's, just be better. Or can you sell more things? What budget we got? No, nothing, no, just sell more. Just like you say, like by increasing conversion rate. more with less, I think that's a B2B trigger as well, isn't it? It's do more with the same or do more with less. It's like, how? How? Surely it's harder because like click costs are rising or like, you know, things saturate. It's like, you can't, can't like, yeah. that, everyone would have a successful, very good, profitable business. If that was true, right, if you didn't need to spend anything to have a business and make profit, we would all be millionaires. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think of an e-com. I don't have any e-com ones particularly, so I'm gonna have to go with like a... I know, I know! I'm gonna have to... I'm gonna have to go... I'm gonna have to think of something like... something else that Rob... attack something else that Rob likes. Please leave Thunderbirds alone! Those puppets are amazing! I've got one for you, Rob. Get him. You're not allowed to use any of either the marketing tech or the AI tools that you want to use because HR have bought in a new policy that says you're not allowed to just like have free reign over the tools. Can you imagine? That'd be the end of me. There are people who've been banned. Is that actually a thing do you think? Does that actually happen? yeah. uh that won't let people use chat. I've never heard of that. that would tickle me. That would just... I'd leave. I'd leave. I'm going with Johnny. just have one anyway. Like, what, you're gonna, like, track down my, like, phone? Yeah, like, yeah, my phone or something, like... they going to know? It's getting so good they wouldn't even know. Yeah. Rob wire sales down on heaters brackets. It's July. I've got it written here. was good. Does that get you? of variance and product, yeah, not nothing, just thinking the down without looking out the reasons behind it. gosh. ah to this talk and there was a guy who worked for like a Windows, Window company. And he was saying that he has to, it is one person and he has to manage, what was it, three or four websites that sell the same products across the websites. because if you have it on more than one, you're bound to sell more. I've had that. Or let's make a website for every category of product we sell. I've had that one as well. So let's just dilute everything and make work for everyone. Let's have 10 websites rather than one because we'll reach more people. No. That's what happens when they promote the wrong people to that sales marketing director, We're going in a full circle. Hey, hey. So are we at the time where we're ready to vote for our favourite trigger? Now you know my phone. Should have been writing this down, shouldn't I? Mmm. It's okay, it's okay. Which one made you feel the worst? The fair... Well there's the image one, can we recap? Can anyone recap what they were? Yeah, it's, mine was slides, make the slides pretty, and then firing all the marketers because you've got chat GPT. Mine was CEO sign off and then only good marketers work come out of London. I had like the just promoting people to the wrong and then Priorities forcing priorities, but not doing that themselves Yeah, and my wife partner saw your Metro ad and didn't like the creatives and I searched for a keyword and our ads didn't come up. yeah, yeah For me, can I can I say because I'll forget them all again. I've got a terrible memory Rob that was a close second I think the Google search thing and but I'm just so numb to it over time I think the CEO having to sign everything off and just put a spell on it for me because yeah That's triggered me the most I think just doesn't need to happen trust the people you've hired. So number one modern emma, I think Thank you. Yeah, I'll second that one. You could tell that's just the one because I've been there and done it and I'm sure we all have and it's just unnecessary and a waste of their time and yeah, so I'll go for that one. Two votes. gonna go with sales leader becoming sales and marketing just because again, I'm a bit numb to the CEO sign off. Yeah, yeah, the, I'm, I'm very, I am torn between that one and the priorities. And I think I'm gonna go priorities, because that was the one that made me grab the desk like this. So I'm I'm gonna go with priorities, like. uh it yeah winners really. We'll probably have to flip a coin I guess. Well, no, no, no, no, CEO wins because Rutas got, CEO wins because router, I pick priorities. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting in house and how different, sorry. sorry, if you're listening to this podcast and you're a CEO, don't try and sign everything off. Don't do it. to piss everyone off. Listen I'm stricken. isn't to sign everything off. It's not a good use of your time or what you're being paid to sign everything off. Yeah. time. So we love to finish every ep- hire good people who you trust and then you don't need to. So we'd like to finish every episode with some marketing gossip. So is there anything that you guys love or hate that is happening at the moment in the world of marketing that you want to bring to the table? Real put on the spot m Yeah. I think it's like you're saying, Jonny, where a lot of companies now are saying, you're not allowed to hire anyone if you believe AI could do that job. And I think that's a big thing that's coming out now. So a lot of young people, like trying to get into marketing and things, it's like, well, yeah, are those vacancies now just going? Because if AI can do it, there's no job there. Should you bother getting into marketing at this stage? you, let's say, fresh out of uni, fresh out of school, and you just think, I fancy that, would you recommend it? Let's say it's like a person or someone you know, like uh a niece or a nephew. Do you know what? think I would if it was a specific, either a specific specialism or a, where there's deep knowledge involved or there is like maybe local, more localized marketing. Cause I still feel like even though, you know, like yes, you can use AI to do some of that. There is a level of, I don't know, something in local marketing that feels like it needs someone who actually like cares about the businesses, so it needs a person. Whereas I feel like some of the big enterprises, yeah, you probably can have a little, a mini army of marketers and a huge, big AI agent network. Yeah. Probably got the data to query, do you what mean? Where small businesses don't have that. This is gonna be a finger in the air for a small business. I think, yeah, like SME marketing, totally fine. I think enterprise marketing may be in trouble. That's what you should move into, think. m No, no, just helping, yeah, AI, integrating AI into SMEs and things. That's probably, setting up agents and you see other people doing it and they're doing extremely well, it's very popular. that's your steer. um I guess, or what's happening is you do, you're seeing these not jobs, but you see these people pop up on LinkedIn, aren't they? And they're enabling people with AI. And we've had a couple on the podcast and it's almost like when personal branding became a thing, a lot of people became personal branders and some people did it very well. Some people didn't. So it'd be interesting to see if it gains the popularity that personal branding did or I don't see it fizzing out though, I feel like that's maybe a good way to go, Robby. the only way or work the land, two options. work the land. Ruta, have you got got any gossip for us? I've said this one before, but I don't know if it was in a gossip and it's seeing businesses that are advertising on LinkedIn that really shouldn't be advertising on LinkedIn. It's late stage capitalism as far as I'm concerned. Like personal trainers and like, I don't know, like just random shit where like, yeah, where LinkedIn is really not where you're going to be making any money because one, LinkedIn ads are super expensive and two, it's just not the right kind of place for it. So I think that's my, that's kind of my gossip and something I see all the time now. I've a personal trainer. Obviously I'm not the target market for a personal trainer. Too late for that. Neither am I. crop up in people's comments and they get into people's emails and stuff. I have seen a lot of people complaining about it, but yeah, we see me and Robert just right off. We've not been targeted specifically by it, but I have seen people complaining about it. So it's interesting, it? old woman. I assume I'm in the top target for things. She's fat, so she needs to have a personal trainer, you know? So, yeah. Plus pregnancy stuff. You know. Obviously. My gossip is to do with, it's on the job front. I saw a post by, I don't know if he's the director of marketing or CMO at Buffer and him saying 1800 people had applied for a mid-level marketing job. And I was just like, I, Buffer is great company. So can imagine a lot of people actually apply because it's a good company to work for. But that is just, that just really to me highlights the state of the marketing, like job situation at the moment. listened to a podcast on AI marketing and it was about the job things and now graduates and such like are using AI to find the jobs, apply for the jobs, channel the CVs. So this thing I've been able to apply is just becoming like multiplied. So rather than applying for like 20 jobs in a year or something, you're like going to like 500 or a thousand because of the, because you can now, yeah, so much Well, thank you both for coming on. It's always fun. We'll try and air the episodes together. So kind of they're both out at the same time. And yeah, thank you for listening and we will see you on the next one.