Blame it on Marketing ™
Do you ever feel like it's always marketing at fault? We know the feeling. We can't afford more therapy so we decided to collect all the ridiculous things that marketers hear and invite our friends to chat about them. If you want to hear us (Emma and Ruta) rant about sometimes funny sometimes serious topics this is the place for you.
Blame it on Marketing ™
Your video still sucks in 2024 | E57 with Jess Percival
In this episode, we tackle the monumental shift towards video marketing and why business are still struggling to make video in 2024. Platforms like TikTok and Instagram have exploded in popularity, and Jess shares her expert insights on the hurdles businesses face in creating video content. We're talking about the fear of imperfection, the misalignment between senior leadership and marketing teams, and how brands like Duolingo and Ryanair are nailing it. Video is no longer a nice-to-have; it's a must-have, and we’re here to help you embrace it with open arms.
Finally, we dive into the nitty-gritty of video production. From scriptwriting to editing, Jess emphasises the need for specialised roles and thoughtful strategy. We also touch on the impact of AI in marketing, advocating for a balanced approach that keeps the human touch intact. Whether you're just dipping your toes into video marketing or looking to refine your existing strategy, this episode offers actionable tips and insights to help you stand out. Tune in, take notes, and get ready to transform your video marketing game.
Takeaways:
- Mistakes happen, and it's important to learn from them and move on Companies should prioritize video production and understand the time and resources required for success.
- Short-form video platforms like TikTok have increased the demand for video content.
- There may be a fear of the video production process and a disconnect between senior leadership and marketing teams.
- Generalist marketers may struggle to take on video production without proper training and resources.
- Engaging thumbnails and titles are important for attracting views. Align video content with the interests of the target audience to ensure quality views and conversions.
- Don't prioritize the number of views over the quality of views.
- Video content is often not as respected as written content, but it requires skill and practice to create engaging videos.
- Use AI appropriately in marketing and avoid generating content that is misleading or irrelevant.
- Debrief after each video to identify areas for improvement and refine the video production process.
Check out the Exposure Ninja YouTube channel for some top quality B2B content!
Connect with Jess on https://blameitonmarketing.com
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Hi everyone, and welcome back to Blame it On Marketing. It's season eight. That's very exciting for us, obviously, emma and Ruta, we're back, and we have changed up the format slightly for this season because, for those of you who are part of the Blame it On Marketing community, you will know that we have two forums in there, one of which is marketing confessions and the other is marketing gossip. So what we are hoping to do with all of our wonderful guests is get them to confess something and then also get them to share some gossip along with having the main discussion. And today we are joined by the awesome Jess, who we will um. Well, we'll let yourself introduce yourself, jess. That's too many yourselves, isn't it?
Speaker 2:cool. Yeah. Yeah, I was fine, it's all good. Um, yeah, my name's Jess. I am a digital marketing specialist at Exposure Ninja. Um, I know Emma and Rita because we did a little bit of podcasting together over on the Exposure Ninja podcast, the dojo, and I was like can I come on your podcast please? It was really fun, so here I am um.
Speaker 1:So, before we get into the main topic, we want to ask you, jess, to confess your deepest, darkest marketing. Fuck up um. Tell us what happened. Tell us what you did. Um, you don't have to tell us when it happened, or well, tell us as much detail as you want.
Speaker 2:I feel I feel like this is quite a funny one, um, because it's not like life-changing, but it was just so silly like I feel like I do a lot of things that are silly, so I feel like this is a great example. But I was working in a job that had a lot of traditional marketing and I was meant to be on the digital side, but occasionally I'd get roped in to do traditional stuff and one time I had to write some letters and I had never really written a professional letter before. You have to put an address on and a date and all that. And I had to do like 200 of them. So I wrote them, printed them out, looked at them and somebody said are they not supposed to have a date on? And I was like my little millennial self was like why does there need to be a date on this letter? What is the purpose of this? My boss was like no, you need to redo them all. So I had this stack of letters and was like no, you need to redo them all. So I had this like stack of like letters and was like, oh god, I'm gonna have to shred these all, like that's really embarrassing. So redid them, added the date, printed them again, looked at them and realized that they were double-sided, meaning that every letter had two letters on it, which is just like a GDPR nightmare.
Speaker 2:So then, the actual ridiculousness of this situation is that I had like 400 sheets of paper, or like 200 sheets of paper, under my desk, and I was in a job where my boss was not very pleasant and I was like what am I supposed to do with all this paper? And I was like making all these ridiculous plans, like, oh well, my dad has like a boiler that he like stocks with fire. Maybe I can just take all these letters home and just put them in like the boiler, because I was just so scared of my boss being like why have you done this? And I'm like, well, maybe if I was doing things that were digital, we wouldn't have had this problem in the first place. Yeah, it would, it would be fine. Um, but yeah, in the end, I did shifts of going to the big shredder and just sneaking a few pieces of paper in at a time. Actually, no, I went on lunch, when everybody was on lunch, and I just went and shredded all my papers and nobody, nobody knew. And in my exit interview.
Speaker 2:I was like, do you know what I did once? I accidentally printed like 400 sheets of paper and then had to shred them all. Um, and it was one of those where it's like, if, if you haven't written physical letters before sent them, it should seem like common sense that, oh, check the date and make sure it's not printed double-sided, but if you don't do that, because everything you do is digital, it's not common sense. No, no. So, yeah, that was. That was.
Speaker 2:It wasn't like industry changing, it wasn't life changing, but it definitely sat on my shoulder for a long time until I left that job and was like, guess what I did? Yes, it was, yeah, an adventure for sure. In that same business, I also broke the internet for the entire day and nobody could work. Um, but that's a different story, for maybe for another time. It was. It was again. It was kind of like oh, we have a tech person, she can set up her own computer and do everything herself, right? Oh, no, apparently plugging a phone in to the phone line actually broke the whole internet. Um, and if tech would have just done it for me and not just expected me to do it, like they wouldn't with everybody else, it wouldn't have happened.
Speaker 2:It was a day before christmas holiday as well, so, like everybody had a lot of stuff to do, uh, well, actually I think people were probably grateful because they didn't have to do anything. Yeah, I'm just gonna take take it as people are grateful and just yeah, hopefully I feel like I'm not. I forgot about that. I feel like I'm gonna be awake all night, girls, after this conversation probably my marketing, my marketing fails so today we wanted to go back to the topic of video.
Speaker 3:Um, we've done a video episode before with the lovely chris walker talking about animations and kind of how video isn't the silver bullet to your company's problems. But when we were chatting and obviously jess um helps run the dojo podcast, so she's totally in the game when it comes to video production and all of those things we we just kind of got into like the fact that companies still want to do more video but they're not doing more video or they're doing it badly. And I'm sure to the three of us it's like it's not that complicated, like it's fine, record something interesting, chop it up, put it online, right, like that's the extent of it. But why do you think, first of all, company should still be trying to do more video and why do you think that's not happening successfully?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think.
Speaker 2:So short form video is just the thing. It's the in thing. It has been the in thing since like 2020. I do think the pandemic sped it is because they find out about things that they didn't seek out. You know, when you're on TikTok or you're on Instagram reels, it's random things that are appearing. It's very rare that I know apparently young people use TikTok as a search engine. It's very rare that I actually go onto one of these platforms and I'm like I'm looking for this, so it means I come across stuff all the time.
Speaker 2:The other thing as well is it's highly, highly targeted, like you search for something or you interact with one video for just a little bit too long, even if it's a video that you hate. I always find this. I'll watch a video that I'm just not interested in because I'm like what is happening? This is really strange. And then I end up with like a hundred more of those videos on my feed because the algorithm was like well, she watched that a bit longer, so she definitely wants to look at weird, see creepy sea creatures over and over again. Um, but it does mean that if you're engaging with like fitness content, you're going to start to see more videos of people talking about, you know, fitness equipment, that they use different brands, um, and yes, okay, you can get hit with ppc ad. That fits that if it's organic and it's like a fitness brand. Who is, you know, posting something super relatable? Um, and then you're like, wow, that the thing they're wearing looks really nice. How can I get me some of that? Um, then it kind of brings you in right.
Speaker 2:So I think that's one of the reasons why it's it's still so popular, and I think there's a couple of reasons why I think it's not getting adopted. I think there's a fear, I think there's a misunderstanding of the video production process and what those videos look like before they've been edited. I think people expect that they're going to sit in front of a camera and just go here's a perfect monologue and, yeah, one take, exactly one take, has a perfect monologue. No edits nothing, because they don't understand the process behind it. Um, so I think that's part of it as well.
Speaker 2:As, like, there's a lot of people who will say, for instance, tim, who does the videos, exposure Ninja. People will be like, oh, you're so confident, like you're so good, and I know Tim won't mind me roasting him a bit, but in the past videos like he was awkward, like Tim, sorry, but you were awkward and he knows this. He knows that he was awkward, but it's just getting that practice and I think a lot of people want that instant gratification. They're like, well, you, you know, I just want our CEO to be able to do videos right away. I want our sales team to be able to do videos right away and be confident, um, and that's just not, it's just not feasible at all. Um.
Speaker 2:I think the second thing as well is that there might be a disconnect between what the senior leadership are after and what maybe the marketing team wants to do.
Speaker 2:So, for instance, I always bring them up accounts like Duolingo and Ryanair. They obviously give their social team a lot of freedom and you know they they take that risk and potentially, I do imagine sometimes the seniors are like okay, that was a little bit close and I think maybe, if we could, we could reel that back in, like I've even seen when Duolingo was like, actually we did have to take a video down because our legal team was like absolutely not, that was too far. Um, but I think there is a lot of of fear around letting people just do this kind of more user-generated content vibe or this more chaotic vibe, even though they know it would. The marketing team knows it will hit their audience, but the senior leadership are a bit too scared to take that, take that leap Because, even though it's, that kind of content is way faster than something that's highly polished. It's also a lot riskier. So yeah, I think those are the two main issues.
Speaker 1:Do you think it also speaks to the way that people learn? Because I've I've been thinking about this quite a lot, right, so I sucked at school because I can't. If I read something, I don't digest it and then I'm not able to regurgitate. But if I do something, physically do something, or I watch a video, like I'm a what do they used to call it kinesthetic learner. Um, that this makes me feel really old talking about it like this. But, um, they, yeah, so like that's the way that I learn. So, like you say, jess, that's the way I consume content, that's the way I consume knowledge by watching and doing. Um, and I think maybe that's why it's like exploded for people, because that traditional form of sitting down and reading a 20 page ebook or even reading a blog, like I can't I can't barely bring myself to read a blog these days, let alone, let alone anything else. I'm like, oh, is there not a video that goes with this?
Speaker 3:um, and I think you're right or is there not like summary, yes, summary social posts, right like where I'm just like too long didn't read what. What's the key points?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, um, but yeah, I think people are afraid of making. People are afraid of making content that either misses the mark or um, I think for senior leaders, we've talked about this quite a lot are afraid of not positioning themselves in the way they want to position themselves, even though the marketing team are like no, it's about the audience, it's not about us yeah, I think there's also a conversation to be had.
Speaker 2:We actually spoke about this a little bit on the dojo yesterday. Um, and that's different platforms. You can have a very slightly different tone of voice and a different positioning, like Duolingo. Just use them as an example again. Like on their Instagram reels and theirok, they're like ridiculous, like the stuff that they post and sometimes I'm like that is gonna do damage and it doesn't, because they know their audience. But then if you go on their ppc ads, it's really like here's how to use our app and look how easy it is and our owl is like a pro rather than being like a predator for duolipa or whatever kind of content they're posting this week.
Speaker 2:You know, and it's a very different, a very, very different vibe and I think that is fine. Like they're linking the brand together using imagery and, you know, accessibility and understanding. I think that's a thing that Duolingo does quite well is they're like we get you and I feel like they portray that in their ads, but it's just a very different way to when they're doing stuff on TikTok and I think that's portray that in their ads, but it's just a very different way to when they're doing stuff on TikTok, and I think that's. That's fine. You don't have to be putting the exact same message out on every single platform, and that includes your videos. You can take a bit of a different vibe in your videos, if that's what works, you know, um, you also talked about Jess.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, people not necessarily understanding the production that goes into video and I think a lot of the time and maybe this is something that marketers get wrong we will sort of talk about video as diy, like do it yourself or do it in house, you know, and maybe we shoot ourselves in the foot because that makes it sound like it's easy and it's quick, when the reality is, even if you're a good editor, you know, root is a really good editor. I'm probably substandard. Um, I can do a bit, um, on my premiere rush pro editing software. We're not I've not quite reached, I'm not quite on premiere pro yet. Um, you know, so I can.
Speaker 1:You know you can do a certain amount of editing yourself, um, depending on what the content is. But, um, we are like, yeah, I can get that video out today, like we recorded something this morning, we can get it out today, um, but that what people don't see is that that takes maybe all day, um, or maybe even longer than that, or that you've done loads of prep work to, you know, kind of get yourself there. So I guess, yeah, do you think that marketers kind of shoot ourselves in the foot by talking about it in a DIY kind of fashion. Um, and you know, even though we're saying DIY is quicker and dirtier than, say, like, paying someone to produce and edit and all of those sorts of things us doing ourselves, is it okay for us to be doing that, or should we be paying people?
Speaker 2:I think it's a bit of both. I've worked in the corporate video world before and I know how different that that corporate vibe is. And also you create a problem if you go and record all your funny TikTok memes in a corporate environment. People see that and they're like goodbye, like that does not look like it's content that we like that. It immediately screams ad, it immediately screams brand and it's just not not the right vibe. But there's definitely a place for both of these things. Like would I say that you should DIY a case study video? Probably not, because if you hire a company, they're going to get all these gorgeous interview shots. They're going to know how to make your you know your clients comfortable and be able to have these open conversations and not be freaking out on camera. They're going to be able to get all these drone shots and just all these like this b-roll and all this fancy stuff that you might not think about if you were to work with them on the quick and dirty stuff, then it's not going to look quick and dirty, it's definitely not going to be quick and you're going to pay too much for it for what you really need to be doing. Um, but I do agree with what you're saying, emma, and that there's definitely a misunderstanding of how long the video production process takes, like when we're doing the videos on the Exposure Ninja YouTube channel. I will write a brief and that's like week one. Everybody reviews the brief and then gives feedback on, like you know, we've got the outline and then it gives the others an opportunity to say, oh, have you thought about adding this, or I don't think that fits, or I don't think it flows. Then I write the script, then that gets reviewed. So that's week two. Week three Tim records. Week four we edit. Week five we publish. You know, like it's not like, but that's not. That's not like social media. Tiktok vibes, that is like our more longer form content on YouTube. That's not like social media. Tiktok vibes, that is like our more longer form content on YouTube. That's like 15 minutes long, um, 15 to 20 minutes long. So there's obviously slightly different vibe there.
Speaker 2:But I think you know you have to remember if you want to do a little video for social media, you probably need a little bit of a script, just so that you're not even if it's something you know really well, just so that you're like. I want to hit this point, this point, and I want to promote this thing done, um, but you need to have a think about that. You need to make sure that you aren't recording in like the dead of night, when your lighting's really bad, you know, do you want to be? If you work in like a warehouse, let's say, do you want to be in the field, as it were, making sure that people can see where you are. But then you've also got to spend a little bit of time editing it, finding the perfect sound on instagram or tiktok, you know the the best audio. Then you've got to write the caption and stuff.
Speaker 2:So it's not just like I'm just going to record a quick video and post it when you're in, when you're working for a company and when you're trying to think about how best to promote your, the brand that you're working for it company, and when you're trying to think about how best to promote your, the brand that you're working for it's. Yeah, it's not just a case of I'm going to record a video in the morning. And we all know, as marketers as well, that when you say I'm going to record a video in the morning, that's like some kind of weird beacon goes out for everybody to book, book like a meeting with you or there's something is on fire and there's all these problems. So definitely don't think that you can just do a video in a day. But there's other stuff you can do, like you can batch, record a bunch of stuff on one day, edit a bunch of stuff on one day. You know you don't have to just do one video at a time. Then you're going to be thinking, oh my god, I only get one video out a week. Actually, you can record a bunch of stuff at once and there's no harm in taking clips from something like a podcast or like a longer video and posting them to social media as well. So there's a lot of different ways you can tackle it. But just don't think it's like a quick job.
Speaker 2:And this goes for, like marketing managers who are more used to working with traditional stuff, or business owners who are like let's do video, that'll be fun. Please just understand. It's not just like if you've seen your kids like picking up a tiktok and doing a dance for two minutes, then posting it. That is not what is happening in in the marketing zone at all. Um, so yeah, just just be wary of that and also don't listen to these people who are like marketing gurus, who are teaching you how to drop ship and say you can do like a million videos in a day. Like, yeah, okay, if you're working on your own and you don't really care about your brand, then that's fine, but if you're working in a more corporate setting, you really need to think about it um, you mentioned how you've got this like four, four week process for your longer form videos on youtube and, by the way, they're excellent.
Speaker 3:If you haven't looked at exposure to videos on YouTube, they're great. But they're so good, they look easy, you know, like when someone's an incredible dancer or athlete, they make it look so easy and it's a 15 minute video. So, like, how the fuck has it taken four weeks to produce that? That's ridiculous, right, but it's like that because of that, not in spite of that.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, that is 100% it, and you have to also remember like to be able to put out a video. We still put out a video every week and the quality is higher, the audience targeting is higher, the general like Tim's performance is higher. Like everything is just laser focused on how to share the most information while also getting leads and yeah, it's, it needs that time and it pays off. Most of our leads come from YouTube, so it's not something to laugh at.
Speaker 1:Like the process works yeah, I think I've got a really good experience of this. So, like Liam, who some of you might know, he's been on this podcast and he helps us with social stuff and all sorts of other bits Liam and I recorded a series of um like comedy sketches that were called the marketing experts, which we kind of dreamt up. It's ridiculous, it's characters, it's really stupid. Um, let's bear in mind Liam is also a professional actor. I'm not obviously BTEC in performing arts, everybody go me um, but you can tell which one of us is a professional actor when you watch the videos. But we sat down, so each one. So we did, I think, like five or six sketches.
Speaker 1:Um, when we originally did it, each sketch took us like half a morning to write. Then we would obviously get into costume, which takes, I mean, I don't know, not that long because you know whatever. Um, but we then had to set up. There's a green screen that was set up, there was liam's got professional lighting, there's mics to set up, so there's all the audio stuff that goes into it. Then there's the recording, then there are the a million fuck-ups that happen because you know, like you say, jess, not perfect. And then, once you've actually got something in the can that you think is good. There's all the editing that goes into it. So I would say each one of those sketches maybe took two days to make, and so people are like, yeah, let's just do some comedy let's just do this stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh, I think the longest one is like two minutes, yeah, and it's like two days worth of work, if not more. Um liam will confirm uh, but yeah, like it's not something you can just do, and then it's also the energy that goes into that. So, while you're deciding that's the route that you're going to go down, you're going to create this kind of piece of content that has last two minutes and then people forget about you are not able to do other content, you're not able to do other things because you are doing that. So it's like if you're going to organizationally make video a priority, you then have to understand yeah, there is this lengthy process that sits behind it and you have to really back back up and resource your video creation so that you are not then expecting people on top of that to do all of this other content because you know your effort is going into video.
Speaker 1:People absolutely forget that. It's like um, I can't be creating video and also then doing all of these other things at the same time. I don't know. You guys have probably experienced that as well. It's really hard.
Speaker 3:I mean backing on, yeah, backing on to that point. Um, emma, uh, as everyone is trying to do more video, well, I think, yeah, it's still a thing. I'm happy to say that, as everyone's trying to do more video, um, what? Where does that leave generalist marketers? Because, for example, me and emma can edit. Fine, we can make video, we can be on video, we can probably plan a video, but that's not a normal go-to marketing skill set. So should companies be expecting that from generalists? Or like is this just a massive added bonus if it does happen?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's one of those where I want to say I definitely don't ask your generalist to do all the video stuff, but people are going to do it anyway because as soon as something new happens in marketing, they're like well, you should know how to program an AI tomorrow while also doing all your other jobs chop, chop, um. So it's one of those where it's like you really need to understand like this is almost an entire separate role. Um, like we have, you know, I write the script, tim records it, vim edits it, then I upload it and do like the email stuff. But that's not something for just one person to do. If I was doing, you know, writing it, recording it, editing it, uploading it, that's my entire week. Like maybe I could do a little bit of email or like maybe a 500 web blog post, but realistically it's not something that somebody who is a generalist can just pick up and just do. If they really want to and if you're a generalist, you're like I really want to get into video then start small. Start by making the little handheld videos and see how they go.
Speaker 2:Consume as much content as you can about making videos, because it's not just about putting a video on YouTube and putting it out there Like we're one of we are the biggest agency, youtube marketing agency, youtube channel on YouTube, because we think we think about okay, what is our audience actually going to watch, what thumbnail is clickable, what title is clickable?
Speaker 2:And, yeah, okay, sometimes it can go a little bit borderline clickbaity, but I think that's fine sometimes and that's like what people expect. I will see other companies who I see putting videos up. There's no custom thumbnail or the thumbnail. You're like squinting to read what it says, or it's just not engaging, or I'm like why would I click on this? That's so wordy and so long, why do I need to learn about this? Whereas if they would have distilled it down to, like you know, this method will elevate your marketing game or something. To be honest, I probably won't watch that video either. But, um, if, instead of being like you know how to do technical seo or that was a really poor example, because actually I would watch the technical seo video, um, but it's what.
Speaker 2:What I'm trying to say here is make sure you understand what your audience is actually going to click on. But also you need to find that balance between chasing the dragon and chasing views and being willing to be like is this going to get us leads and sales? And if it's, then potentially you need to rethink and I do not mean by that that you need to. All your videos need to be fully promotional, because that's not it. But yeah, but you need to also be thinking okay, is my audience going to watch? For instance, how to scale a drop shipping business is not something that a business that, as an exposure, ninja would work with, because it's just not in our remit, whereas something that's to do with, like, how to scale your healthcare business, that is in our audience and that makes a lot more sense. So you might see, on google trends it says well, everybody wants to know about how to market their drop shipping business, but you don't cater to that audience. Then why are you? Why are you doing that? Um, so yeah, it's just definitely finding that balance between getting those views, but also understanding the quality of a view. And if you get a video with 500 views where 50 of people convert. Surely that's way better than a video with 100 000 views where three people convert, like you know. So definitely, I think that's a danger that you can fall into.
Speaker 2:I kind of went on a bit of a tangent there. But there is this, this whole thing that happens where senior leadership might be like well, how many views are you getting? How many views are you getting? That's the focus. Then all of a sudden they go. Are you getting all these views? But where are the leads? And you were like, oh well, if we would have focused on these from the start, then you wouldn't be asking this question. So I think, yeah, finding that balance is so important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's like, what is the purpose of the piece of content? Because, like your, your content can you know, like, obviously, if it is to convert people, then obviously you know the focus of that is probably leads or whatever you know, whatever metrics you use around conversions. If it is going to be for brand awareness, like you know, let's say, for example, you're doing a podcast. I think traditionally, most people do a podcast for increased brand awareness. I'd be very interested in people who do podcasts and actually manage to convert people into leads. Would love to hear from you, um, and how you do that. But I think that's you know traditionally why people do them, um, and so therefore, you know, like be clear on that purpose.
Speaker 1:So if, for example, your business is like our bottom line is looking bad, our pipelines are really shaky, and you want to put loads of effort into a podcast, I would be asking you why the hell you're doing that. Versus if, say, for example, like you say, jess, you're creating those long form pieces of content that actually convert people, that are really niche and specific for your audience, that could generate leads and therefore help stabilize your pipeline, your revenue, great, you've got the reason behind why you're producing the content and why you're taking that time. But I think, as marketers, we need to be crystal clear on why we're doing that stuff, because otherwise that is where people are like I don't take this very seriously. Because that's the next question, because I think there is.
Speaker 1:There is that, um, I think in any type of content that you make, where people are, um, in particular, you know lots of senior leaders are a bit like why are you doing this thing? Um, and people don't necessarily have much respect for that whole process, um, especially when it comes to video. So, yeah, I'm interested in your take on that, jess, in in terms of why, potentially I mean we've touched on quite a bit of it but why people maybe don't take the video stuff as seriously as they should do, especially because you're talking about the fact you've managed to convert off it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I do think it's one of those where it's like, well, people are telling us we have to do it, so let's just put something out. And then there's kind of like, well, what do we have to do it? So let's just put something out. And then there's kind of like, well, what do we want to share? Oh well, we had a we're, you know, having a fun party, let's film that.
Speaker 2:Or we're having an away day, let's film that which is fine if your goal is, um, you know, kind of recruitment and stuff or or whatever. And then they're like, oh well, what's happening around us that we can film that people might think is kind of cool? Um, rather than treating it as like an educational exercise, like we always say, our youtube channel is meant to be like edutainment, like we're trying to make it interesting, but it's also educational, um, and I think it's having that goal. I was gonna say having that goal clear from the start. But actually it's fine if your goal changes. It's fine if, like, at one point, our goal was to be the biggest agency youtube on youtube channel on youtube, and then we achieve that and now we're like, okay, well, how do we find this for lead generation and start getting a bit more defined with that. Or if maybe you want to do youtube for a certain reason, maybe it's just because you want clout, that's, that's absolutely fine, you know, um, but it's just making sure that you're very aware of how much you're spending on it and what you expect to get the returns from it.
Speaker 2:Because if you are going after it as a cloud exercise and you are posting videos of the corporate away day and then you're like we didn't get any leads from this showing our, showing our staff having a fun time. Why don't we get leads? And it's like, well, did you think you were going to or was that reframe it? Think about it in a different way. Well, this actually shows that we're a really fun company to work for, and this is exactly the kind of content we want to put in front of potential hires, um, which is a great goal to have. But, yeah, I think it's fine for your goal to change. It's fine if you just want to just post as much as possible to see what sticks, and it's fine if you're just doing it as like a recruitment exercise. There's you know, there's a lot. I feel like I didn't answer your question there, emma can.
Speaker 3:Can I throw in why I think the video process isn't very respected? Um, so I think most of us know about making video from watching people on YouTube. Probably that was like the first explosion of self-generated content, right, I don't know if we can call it that, just self-produced video content. And I think the millennials, dare I say that, maybe the Gen Xers's, they can appreciate that and they, they don't automatically think like, oh, if this 15 year old is making videos, it must be so easy. But I think potentially the older generation, um, maybe the senior managers, um, they're like well, I know, I know, I'm sorry, everyone, um, they, they look at these videos and they're like well, you know, all of these kids, or all of these like now, people that have made a job out of YouTube started from nothing. They didn't know anything.
Speaker 3:It can't be that hard. You know like, and you never see the work behind the scenes, right? Or that it took somebody years to learn how to do video well, or years to get big on YouTube, because you know they had to figure stuff out. So I think that's one of the reasons why video isn't as respected as like written content, for example, because I think with written content we've all kind of grown up with, like idealizing books and writers and and all of those things, whilst maybe not necessarily idealizing people that make great video outside of, probably, cinema, um, but these, like you know, the videos that we make, they're not seen as like high grade, fancy, respectable, not respectable, but, like you know, just impressive things yeah, yeah, this.
Speaker 2:This is such a fantastic insight. And this is the thing is, we get a lot of people who come to us and go I could never do what you do. I don't have that skill and I'm like, like I said, you go back far depths of the exposure into YouTube channel and you will see a very awkward Tim.
Speaker 2:Sorry again Tim, neither did we, it's, this, is, it's the same. Yeah, exactly, and that's just. And I know this is the thing. If you're a big business, you're going to be scared to put that out there. But then there's other things you can do, like maybe you could practice by doing internal comms using video. Maybe you can start doing things like that, you know, and just doing things I want to say for fun. And yes, you're going to say, oh, that's not going to get any ROI, but it's also probably not going to get any ROI if you don't practice. It's just going to be people are going to see your videos and be like, oh, you can lean into that and be like, yeah, we're getting used to video, this is going to be awkward. Here we go.
Speaker 2:I think podcasts are a really fantastic way to practice your like on camera, chops and stuff Like I think it's. It does give you that experience in quite an environment. That's quite chill, depending on how you approach a podcast and you can kind of choose to be on camera, choose to not be on camera, but or, let's say, you feel like you're really awkward on camera, you can just upload the audio on that occasion but record yourself every time just to get those reps in um. But I think if you go find a youtube, any youtuber who's popular and type in their name of first video, and you will see a totally different version of those people.
Speaker 2:Like you know marquez brownlee, who's a huge tech YouTuber, like you, go back and watch his original video and he's just like a kid. Like he's like hey, I found this remote control in my laptop, how cool is this. And it's like if he hadn't made those like cringe videos or those low quality videos, then he would never be where he is. Another creator is Mr who's the Boss. Like he used to be really, really awkward and then he basically underwent like public speaking training or learned a load of things about like talking with your hands and moving about and kind of understood where his weaknesses were and then found ways to like enhance, because he was like have all this information I want to share, my confidence isn't there.
Speaker 3:And then he found different things he could do around this and I have to say, whenever I watch, like the Apple keynotes, the Google keynotes and they're really doing this with their hands I'm like you did the training and you're not quite, you're not quite fluent, yeah, and I'm like quite comfortable with it yet, yeah, yeah and I think as no.
Speaker 2:No, this is it, and also they're a perfect example. You have all these tech people who are not, who probably didn't sign up to be in videos, these people who talk for google and an apple. Maybe they do. Some of the people there are more professional presenters, but you will spot those people and you'll see. There's things that they do to help them, whether that's the hand movements, whether that's taking extended pauses, whether that's using a lot of visual aids. All of that's fine. It's just a case of, yeah, practice, please just practice. You're not going to get good at it just by sitting in front of a camera and hoping for the best. Just do it. Sit down in front of your computer now and do it even even briefing.
Speaker 1:Like, even briefing is an art form. The first time you write a brief for someone, it's probably going to be shit and you'll realize there's loads of stuff you missed because you get. What you get back is not perfect, um yeah, our brief has changed so many times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1:It's like it's not, it's not that straightforward like even to do this podcast.
Speaker 1:Like ruta and I kind of we don't insist, but we prefer, if we can, have a planning call with someone, not because we want to like we don't rehearse, but just basically because this goes back to our vibe conversation, doesn't it that we had at the end of season seven.
Speaker 1:But we want a bit of a vibe check um just to make sure that we all kind of like we're all on the same page and that, you know, personalities connect and all those sorts of things. And I won't lie that we've had people where we've had our little vibe check chats and they've not made it onto the podcast because this sounds really awful. But quite frankly there wasn't a connection and we knew the conversation was probably going to go down a route that we didn't really want it to go down, because it's not what our listeners expect from us and therefore we've not done the episode or we've canned episodes because of that stuff. And I think I'm really glad that we've done that because otherwise we would have put out content that wasn't really true to form um and that even though it's been like, yeah, people might say we've wasted our time.
Speaker 3:But it doesn't happen a lot because we do that first video, uh, video chat, right. So, um, video, uh, video chat, right. So, um, yeah, and also we've had recordings that are up that you know, maybe they're not people that we know very well, obviously we don't know all of our speakers right from previous and we're like just maybe the speaker feels a little bit, you know, uncomfortable, or maybe we get into it towards the end and you can feel that you know we've all loosened up, we all kind of get each other now and it just takes that time, um, to do that. And they're not the most fabulous engaging off the bat. You know, and that's okay, like it's fine. Every video is not going to be perfect and exactly what you want. And, to be fair, the videos that do the best with the people that we do have a great vibe with, because the conversation is just better. But that's a whole.
Speaker 2:That's a whole other yeah side point yeah, yeah um yeah you, you reminded me of one more step of the video process that I think gets ignored a lot, and that's the debrief process. We do a debrief after every single video where we say what we liked about it, what we didn't like, and because there's, like myself, tim, tim Dale and Vim who all feedback on it, you'll spot things like I'll be like oh, I thought this video was really good and I really enjoyed it. And then Tim will be like I really didn't like this video and I don't think it appeals to our audience. Or other times Tim will be like oh, I thought my energy was really low and I felt really tired. And I'll be like I did not feel that at all, like I thought you had really good energy. So I think sometimes you'll see things in a different way.
Speaker 2:Or somebody might say, oh, I wish we had more examples of this. Or our editor, vin, might say, oh, it would have been amazing to have more screen recordings. And then I know, when we cover a similar topic next time, we can incorporate these things in. Obviously, this is applicable for long form video, but I think you can do it for a short form campaign too. You know, you don't necessarily have to go to every single 30 second video and go, okay, what could have been better? Um, but I think, looking at things as a whole and saying, okay, next time I do this, you know, I know, oh, I want to move my, my camera or do a different angle, or I want to make sure I'm filming on a day when this person's in, because they have great energy and I really want to film with them, or they turned up out of the blue last time I was filming and it just really helps.
Speaker 2:There's all these little things that you'll pick up on. If you never do that, you're never going to be able to improve. Like it's very easy to just look at the stats and go, oh well, this video video bombed better, look next time. If you actually go. Okay, our presenters energy was low and actually, looking back on it, the topic maybe wasn't as suitable for our audience as we thought. Like, why did that happen? Sometimes, you know, we do all the the briefing and sometimes at the brief stage we'll go, no, this isn't for us. Like this is too repetitive or it's just not for our audience. But sometimes we'll have the same thing but have the opposite happen where we think it's really good for our audience. And then the video goes live and it bombs and we're like, okay, we need to figure out why awesome.
Speaker 1:Okay, so in the last few minutes of this conversation we want to just talk quickly about whether you've got any marketing gossip for us, jess. So anything that's been on your mind recently, marketing wise that you're like, or anything that's annoyed you yeah, my main thing this is just a plea for marketers stop ruining AI for everybody else.
Speaker 2:I'm sick of it. I'm sick Like. Ai can be really helpful for a lot of different things in marketing. It's super useful. It can help me. Or if I'm trying to say something I know really well and I'm trying to, I don't want to say dumb it down, but I'm trying to explain it in a better way for the audience or explain it a different way. Ai's got my back. So stop AI generating horrible images and post them as part of your marketing strategy, like you're just ruining it for everyone. It's irritating. Or stop AI generating like.
Speaker 2:I spoke about this on the podcast a while ago, but I got an email from a vegan protein company about how to get more protein in your diet as a woman, and it listed eggs, cheese, beef, chicken and I was like you're just making customers not trust you, but also not trusting that marketers that do use AI are using it in a proper way and it just winds me up. Stop it. But yeah, it's just. I keep seeing like I'll go on social media and see people just all day. They rag on AI and this is like the general public. They're making fake Google AI generated results that are just ridiculous, like to, like the day it was released, people were releasing this like they were already done with it, and I think there are a lot of marketers like I get emails all the time like do everything with AI and that's fine, but just do yeah, I haven't I.
Speaker 2:But this is the thing. I have this real weird stance where I'm like I think AI is so helpful. I use it in a lot of my processes. It's really useful to me when I'm working for EN and in my own business to help me say different things in a different way, or just like when I'm having that mental block. But yeah, there's some people that are really over relying on it and I'm just like slow down, you're ruining it for everybody else, stop it stop we?
Speaker 3:we spoke about this on one of our podcasts, didn't we? The fact that, um, what I'm worried about with ai is that there'll be no marketers to uh check, basically, whether what it produced was good or not and whether it's something that you should be posting and using, because I think a lot of these type of emails as well, they're potentially coming from non-marketers that are just like oh well, I can, I can just use ChatGPT to write emails. Now I don't need anyone professional to look at this. And it's like no, it's a little more deep than that, like there's a skill set behind knowing what's appropriate, and maybe one day you'll train your AI is good enough that they do work like a marketer, but if you're putting out emails like how to eat more protein.
Speaker 1:As a woman, you're probably not there yet, so step away from the AI Use it appropriately.
Speaker 3:Step away from trap Leave it alone.
Speaker 2:This is it, and I think something else that's really important as well is it can be very easy to go well, oh, the silly parts, the silly parts of marketing, like creating video thumbnails or creating social media parts. The bits are easy. Get the AI to do that. Um, whereas actually a lot of us really enjoy doing that. We would rather do that than maybe write an email. Um sequence, like but there's some people who will say, well, I would rather make the email sequence rather than the social media post. That's fine. Um, just to clarify, because I know that people would be like what about me? And I'm like I was thinking about you. Um, but yeah, I think like, stop using AI to generate the things that are actually really fun and, like you know, use AI on the bits that suck and and then free up that time to do the fun, creative stuff.
Speaker 2:I always see these jokes. It's like why is AI doing our artwork for us and writing our stories for us, when it should be doing our washing up? And I know it's not that straightforward. I have people give me an attitude about this all the time. Yeah, where people are like, oh, but you would need a machine to your laundry. I'm like shut up, we're, we're just having fun here, we're just having a little fun conversation, but get it to my taxes. Then there we go, get it to my taxes, and then I can create all these things, yeah that is a piece of tech that I know people are gonna go yeah, this is it, and I know there's gonna be people who go.
Speaker 2:Well, I really love the boring stuff. That's fine. I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about the people who have been told it's whatever, it's whatever the boring bits are to you.
Speaker 3:Right it's. It's do the boring bits with the AI and if you find video boring, sure, but keep the fun bits of your job for yourself. You know, and you can probably do better anyway and use it.
Speaker 1:Use it, yeah, it's just that whole like, like you said, use it appropriately. Like you don't get it to do the whole job, like you probably can't, there are some of the bits of the job that are boring that you do have to do yourself, unfortunately.
Speaker 3:Okay, you just do thank you so much for joining us. Um, it's been lovely. I highly recommend you guys go check out explosion interest content and the dojo, and we'll link the podcast that we were on uh with jess and tim. Um. Go join us on label marketingcom. I don't know if jess is there already, but we will co-host her into signing up. Um, so if you have any questions about video, maybe she'll be able to answer them for you. Um, thank you so much and have a great day everyone.